What do you mean by TATHAGATA?


- When I saw you I didn’t know the fact that you are Tathagata.

* That's correct.


- Then what would you think the reason is that people see you but do not recognize you as Tathagata?

* It is mind.


- What is the difference between the mind you see and the mind they see?

* It is same kind of reason that one with a bright mind listen a talk passing through easily recognises the fact in the talk, but one with dark mind doesn't know the truth of a fact that has even if he sees the fact.

- Then when we want to brighten mind that see facts, what is the secret?

* It is possible when you enlighten to the Truth of good and don't forget it.


- Then, even now when we want to learn the meaning and get accustomed to, where we could learn such things and see the meaning?

* You should learn it in life and see it in life.


- If there is someone who believes in the word and wants to follow you and learn in front of you, would you able to teach everything you know?

* That is correct.


- Then they would want to be the Buddha in this life following your words, would you be able to let them see the mind of Buddha?

* I cannot say such a thing.


- What do your words ‘I cannot say.’ mean?

* The result appears through the process. It isn’t right telling the result without seeing the process.


- Then what could you do for them in this era?

* I can teach them the law of cause and effect when they want.


- Then, can't other people do such things that you do?

* That’s correct.


- What is the difference between you and them?

* It is the truth.


- What is the difference between the truth you have and they have?

* The difference is between one who see and one who cannot see.


- Then what is the difference between one who see and one who cannot see?

* Even the same words, when you listen from one who sees it is easy to recognize the fact, and when you listen from one who cannot see it is difficult to know the truth of the fact.


- Then what kind of process passing through did you see the way of Buddha?

* I, first, obtained good mind, second, met lonely things endlessly and third, let me abandon myself.


- Now, whoever believes that they can see Buddha without going through such a process, is it an impossible thing?

* That’s correct.


- What is the evidence of your words ‘that’s correct’?

* There have been so many practitioners in this world up to the present. The thing that Buddha actually wasn’t born among them is that the way is very strict and far.


- Then, someone appears and tries hard to see the way in this era, would you believe that it is still difficult the person to be the Buddha?

* That is not correct.


- Then what kind of teaching could you give for such one?

* First, one should awake their mind, next one should see its mind, and then one should accomplish good things in the reality.


- What do you mean by ‘good things’?

* It is keeping and accomplishing one’s truthfulness.


- When we still don’t know anything, how could we know truthfulness of the self?

* That is correct. Such a thing should be seen when you serve the world.


- What result does one who serves for the world get?

* The one gets virtue.


- What is virtue?

* It means that good mind comes into being.


- What is the difference between the mind of a man with virtue and mind of a man without virtue?

* It is the same as eyesight when you see objects.


- Then when someone truly wants to build virtue and see the world, can anybody see the world?

* That is correct.


- Among what you have told up to now, what is the concrete evidence of ‘that is correct’?

* It will be seen after you truly serve the world.


- Thank you. Now I am aware of many things through you. But a thing that I still don’t know is your origin. Would you now be able to tell me about your origin as well?

* That is correct.


- Then who is the teacher who taught you and what was the method of ascetic practices that you practiced?

* The teacher who taught me was myself. And even if I tell you the process of ascetic practice that I undergo, it would be difficult for you to understand unless you experience it. But I can truly tell only this thing without hiding at all. The fact that a human being gets a good mind through the world, and becoming the Buddha through the mind, requires a lot of time and effort.


- Then what you have told us were the things that you experienced?

* That’s correct. It was a very long time ago. At that time I could gain a good mind from the world.


- What kind of thing is ‘good mind’ that you said?

* Using current words they are conscience and courage.


- Then do you believe that the way of Buddha begins from conscience and courage?

* That is correct.


- What result do courage and conscience have?

* I could look after me after seeing the conscience, and I could live right after seeing courage.


- Then what was the result once you protected yourself and looked after the world?

* I could be free from the cycle of reincarnation with the virtue that I obtained from the world, and obtained eternal life.


- Then does that mean your body didn’t die and has existed eternally?

* That is not correct.
   My body has changed too many times to count. However, the soul wasn’t scattered and remained as it was so I was always able to be born with the mind. Nevertheless, the reason that my mind couldn’t ascend to the status of Buddha was that my virtue couldn’t reach the virtue of Buddha at that time as well.

When I was about to know the way of Buddha, the body was old and died and when the body was newly born I had to meet a different world again. Finally, when my virtue met the level to know the way of Buddha, the world made me overcome extraordinary trial.

First of all, the world made me have wealth and fame with the body, this was the test about me. The world let me born where liquor, woman and meat never ran out and tried to make me forget my past with emotion and music. However, I wasn’t satisfied in such an environment and among people no one knew the doubt in my mind.

Doing so, one day I saw a different world from the world where I lived. There were men with ignoble bodies, men worn out with starving, and men who were dying because of illness. At that time, I, first time, saw the doubt in my mind.

That thing led me to abandon small duty(emotion) and travel to obtain the way of the world(truthfulness). However, no one knew the right way in front of me, and I wandered the world because of feeling heavy heartedness. Whenever I listened to people, I couldn’t know neither ‘Truth’ or ‘the truth’ and however much I wandered I couldn’t meet a teacher anywhere.

In the end, I got one fact. It was listening to myself. The only thing I knew at that time was belief. Because of furiousness to find the true way and build virtue in the world, I could fight despair, loneliness, starving and coldness but the time didn’t tell me anything.

At that time, for the first time I saw myself with no will and expectation. My body was filling with silence like seeing the world of death. From that time a message transferred from the sky through my heart. After such a thing happened, however much I saw the world, agony didn’t build up, however much time passed fantastic ideas didn’t occur. I then knew the mind with nothing is the mind of Buddha.

However, because people never saw Buddha they didn’t believe my words and didn’t try to follow me. From that time I met lonely self and I got to know thing that I had to do in the world.

Thereupon, the five desires disappeared from my body, and my mind brightened like a clear sky. When I reached all sorts of things I saw the will. From that time I visited people and preached the law of cause and effect so that I let people call me Tathagata.

Now, whoever that wants to be like me should not forget things of me, and first of all one should know right from wrong in the self. Therefore, in order to know the result of all sorts of things, one should enlightened to the law of cause and effect.

One who wants to know this law must have such intention, one would such intention know after served the world. Namely, I say good deed is the origin of Buddha.








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